A friend of mine is a frequent user of Limewire, surely you have hear of it. I’ve been trying to convince him that it’s a sin to download songs/movies without paying for them.
To take something that someone else has bought and use it like you bought it (without actually buying it) is stealing.
“Thou shall not steal”
That same buddy of mine who uses Limewire tried to justify it by saying that each CD (using music as an example) can be duplicated 3-5 times depending on the record studio.
Though that is many times true, that is for the same household. If I took a Relient K CD that I just bought, and sent all the music to you for you to put on your computer/ipod/cd, that would be in violation of the law, which is still stealing.
I don’t hear about many people getting in trouble for using programs like Limewire, but does that make it OK? Most definitely not! But what do you think?
I think you are correct: I believe that file-sharing is a sin both because it is thievery and because it is against the law. There was a story recently about a woman who was fined for sharing just 24 songs (http://www.nme.com/news/various-artists/45472). Perhaps this will change your friend’s perspective.
Okie
Your correct file sharing is a sin.
Greed is also a sin. Sadly one sin is causing a solution to another.
A few YEARS before limewire, napster, kazzaa came out several companies approached the music industry suggesting new and unique services. Like machines that could make custom play lists for a charge, a system to buy individual songs and music online.
As you can imagine the Music industry Said NO because they were making alot of money, and I mean alot.
Than Napster hit, it was ignored, than it became popular and they sued people and napster and so on and so forth. Eventually iTunes and several other sites came out selling music. Took them about 5+ years to do it but they did.
And there still making lots of money.
The TV networks were selling TV series for $80-100 a season. Than torrents came out. Now there selling them for $20-35 a season. There still making money.
Is downloading movies and music stealing yes
Is charging 2-4x more for a product being greed yes.
I’m hoping a balance will be struck that everyone can be happy with.
The good news about all of this is that some networks are shaping up and and realizing that if you charge to much there customers will by-pass them. This is the reason why you can now find alot of shows airing them online and why networks like hulu are starting up.
One side note about the article. She was fined for sharing 24 songs. She was actually probably sharing over a million, however, they were able to prove 24 and proving anymore is kinda pointless. Comments suggest that she choose to fight the system instead of taking the much smaller fine.
I’ll admit, I have tons of music I haven’t purchased. I don’t use a file sharing site, but my friends offer to burn me their favorite music once in awhile. I would buy the music in stores; I have a great respect for the artists I listen to. However, I simply cannot afford to pay $10 for a cd, since I don’t have a job (and its quite hard to get one, I’ve tried). So for the meantime, I’m either going to accept shared music, or listen to no music at all. The answer was kinda simple to me, since I have such a passion for music and an interest in what my friends like.
I’ll admit, I have tons of music I haven’t purchased. I don’t use a file sharing site, but my friends offer to burn me their favorite music once in awhile. I would buy the music in stores; I have a great respect for the artists I listen to. However, I simply cannot afford to pay $10 for a cd, since I don’t have a job (and its quite hard to get one, I’ve tried). So for the meantime, I’m either going to accept shared music, or listen to no music at all. The answer was kinda simple to me, since I have such a passion for music and an interest in what my friends like.
I would rebut with a few points to concider, does the label own the sound? When I speak out or sing it goes out in the air and those who hear it get to keep what their brain can retain. Is that a sin?
Edison had a vision. That vision was to make money off of other peoples work. He created the music industry to put gold in his pockets. He was not a performer. The major labels are not performers either. They are selling you some one elses work and getting more money than the artist who did the work. I have been a profesional musician and I am very aware of the industry’s tactics. One contract with a major label with less than gold or platinum sales on the first album will leave you and your band mates owing the record label incredible amounts of money. Not to mention the fact that they now own your music. And can legaly forbid you to even perform it in public. You wrote it, you recorded it, but it is no longer yours.
Modern equipment means the artist can and should bypass the labels completely and sell their music themselves. The only obstical is the labels control of the airwaves. They decide who gets heard and who doesn’t. For every band you’ve ever heard of there’s thousands who are better and who you will never hear. I don’t think doing damage to a broken system that needs to die is a sin. I think it’s a duty. Set the music free. Let the world decide whats good enough to pay for. The labels must die or the artist surly will.
Bj
God makes good out of the bad, does He not?
Disappointing. Sorry, but that is no good reason at all to sin.
If the artists gives it to them, yes.
No, it’s not a sin, because you don’t actually have the music, just a memory of it. I think artists want people to sing their song anyways, it’s good for them.
If you want to give your work away for free, go ahead, but that doesn’t mean you can make others do the same.
If Edison was greedy for trying to put gold in his pockets, then we are for trying to keep it in ours, so either way, you are against yourself where you stand.
You make the choice to sign with labels, nobody forces you.
You gotta be kidding me.
Your stance completely contradicts your views. You don’t want the artists to die. If people steal all their work, they will all die. If you don’t get money for something, you quit. That’s how the world works (most of the time). You are against file sharing and don’t even know it.
I’m afraid you misunderstood my point good sir. To get air time, that is, to have your music played before the masses on public radio or MTV, requires a contract with a major label. This was not always so. There used to be privately owned radio stations that played local music for all to hear. But they have all been bought up by large corparations who control content. Simply put, if you don’t give them control of your music, they won’t let anyone hear it. You can not sell your music recordings in the local Hastings because they are forbidden to sell anyones music but those on the industry controlled list. The pop stars of today are commoditys traded and discarded like common stocks. But art is not a commodity. It is an expresion of emotion and a plea for vindication. “Listen to my words, and tell me I’m not alone.”
And why not let the world decide what or who’s music to pay for? “You’ve got to be kidding me”… But I’m not young master… I’m not, I believe If someone likes an artists work they will encourage them to continue, even donate to there cause. That is the way Motzart lived, Paginini, Beathoven, Vivaldi, Salyiere’, etc etc. Recorded music has only been around for a bit over a hundred years, copywright less than that. Most artists (Those not backed and promoted by the mainstream companys like Brittany Spears or Miley Sirus) make their money off of concert tickets and not album sales. In fact many of the biggest acts of the last 3 decades are broke and out of work because of the preditory actions of the labels themselves. They are not even allowed to play their own songs because of the legal strong arming of the labels.
Sharing music is as old as man itself. It is the way ideas and concepts are distributed among humans. When I made mix tapes for my girlfriend in highschool to show her how I felt about her, I was not stealing anothers work, I was using it to express myself, my feelings, about her. To the industry thats stealing, to the artist, thats the point of the song to begin with.
Whats in your memory, how many songs can you sing from it? How many lyrics can you write down from memory? Because if you write it down you are a pirate! The industry owns it. How dare you reproduce it without permission (and a hefty fee). That is the music industry today. The only artist you will ever find against piracy is the one who by the grace of the Industry has made enough money for them to start sharing. The ones who struggle, and it is most of them, welcome anyone and all to listen, share, talk about, reproduce, enjoy, and most of all appreciate their music, their art.
I don’t want the artist to die. I want him to eat well and earn an honest living. And most of all I want him to enjoy the fruits of his own labor without an uncareing capitalist profit oriented industry taking the lions share. Pay for your tickets to the show. Not for the CD that he won’t see any money from. Unless he produces the CD himself and gets to actually keep his fruit from his labor. But to support a corrupt, self serving industry that takes advantage of artists for it’s own profits is to me a sin that even your Jesus would not approve of, he did expell the money lenders from the temple for exploiting the masses you may recall.
I,in point of fact, did turn down a label deal in the 80’s. I was fortunate that a band mate had a wife who was far less starry eyed and ignorent than I. She made us get a lawyer to look over the contract before we sighned. The net result of his examination was that each of the 6 band members would owe the label 40k at the end of the 2 yr contract should the first AND second album not reach gold status. 2yrs promoting and touring and we would owe them if they decided not to put us on the radio. That’s what the modern musician faces. Choose not to? We did. We are not famous now nor would we have been in all likely hood. But we would have been heard. And be broke and in debt.
Just because rich people can get laws passed to make it esier for them to stay rich does not mean those laws are right. The artist does not benifit from the current buissness model in proportion to the industry. That is a sin my friend. Not Piracy. Patronise artist, by their tickets, their T-shirts, but not the recordings unless you know they actually get paid for it. Support independant labels and self produced works. Not the greed that is the modern industry.
I am for file sharing. It’s called sharing for a reason. It’s something I like, and think you might too, so I share it with you because I want you to see what I have seen, hear what I have heard. That’s the point of art. To express and explain, to share.
A sin is preventing good musicians from being heard because you can’t profit from it. And that sin is what the industry is today.
Bj
The world can decide what to pay for, but they can’t decide to steal. That’s just stupid.
Does that still make it right to take without paying?
Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s:
http://www.godswebsite.com/Thoughts/thought_20.htm
Focuses on taxes, but works for record labels as well.
I would agree, but still… steal? What about my next house? Would you support me moving in and not paying a penny for it?
A classic example of twisting the Bible.
Sorry, you are very wrong. Stealing as defined by the Bible is the outright theft of goods and property. At the most, filesharing is “copyright infringement.”
By your arguments, you can argue that the modern recording industry is a very sinfull organization because they engage in theft. They steal the hard earned money of their customers through selling a substandard product for far too high a price. They deprive the real creators of that product, musicians, of their hard earned profit and instead funnel it to greedy executives, and they are far behind the times when it comes to technology.
For a theft to have been committed, it must be shown that someone was deprived of their rightful property. The music industry has seen a large slump in sales, but this is because of a large increase in DVD and video game sales, not because everyone is pirating their substandard product.
Which would be theft of property.
They don’t really steal anything, it’s the people that give their money to them. I do agree though, that prices for music are somewhat high.
If some officer came over and found illegally downloaded music on my computer, it would be depriving the label and artist of money, or their rightful property.
Twisting? Really, by shunning usery I’m twisting the bible? I simply do not believe another can own ones thoughts or beliefs. Nor should another profit from ones labors in disperportion to ones input. And most of all I don’t believe art is the property of the rich or the privaleged but the property of man. And for the grace of man it should be seen and enjoyed. By all and not just the rich or privaleged. Art is like knowledge to me, and to charge for it to me seems a terrible crime and a sin. Charge for the format, If I want it on disk I should pay the cost of putting it there, in fact I do, what more is owed outright? If I didn’t enjoy it should I pay anyways? If I like only this song and not another should I pay because they are on the same album.. and if so, why? It’s not what I wanted? Why am I to pay for it. Where are my rights considered in this model? If I bought a car but was not allowed to see all of it nor drive it before I bought it and it turned out to have seats you simply could not set on in comfort would that be my fault? Or an example of salesmanship and misrepresentation. This is what we have in the music industry today, salesmanship, bait and switch, one single does not an album make, but that’s the only ways you get the one song you want. Oh and the artist gets nothing for the first 5million sales, then he gets 2cents apeice.
Look I’m not saying whole sale piracy is right. (Although.. to be honest, I’m not convinced that it’s not) But to ellevate it to a sin? As in, eternal damnation in the fires of hell, sin? I don’t think it’s that simple. Who are sins commited against? Your God or man? Both? Does god support the artist or the corperation in your world? Which does he value more. The artist is not harmed by piracy, if you don’t believe me please research the statistics, the top pirated music also sells the most, same with movies, games, etc.etc. There is no evidence they would sell more without piracy. In fact the evidence points to the contrary.
The simple fact is album sales do not make an artist rich, concert ticket sales and t-shirts do. Album sales are absorbed by the industry and used to perpetuate a system that takes from the artist AND the audiance money. And returns nothing of value but more greed. Shareing is what art is for, has always been for, what it was in the time of your savior and what it still is today. You can’t put a price on it. It is priceless, worth whatever we can give, but no more than what we are willing to as well.
The model of profit for art is an imoral one from a Christian point of veiw or from mine. Knowledge and art are for all and should never be metered nor denied. That would be a sin. Even for an atheist.
Bj
And music/games/programs is neither of those.
So when you were a musician, did you always give away your stuff for free?
Based on whom? Yourself? or the Bible?
Yes.
That’s what things like iTunes is for.
No it’s not.
Piracy is exactly what you said it is: piracy. Piracy = stealing = sin.
Whether you like it or not, it’s what the Bible says.
The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
Matthew 25:40
He values our obedience.
How so? If people can’t download something for free, many of them will revert to paying 99 cents.
This isn’t about money at all. It’s not money that makes it a sin, it’s that people own it, and you take it without their permission. Money doesn’t decide what is a sin or not.
“And music/games/programs is neither of those.”
I think blue makes a fine point; no one should be banished form listening to a song because they refuse to fund a greedy giant such as the labels.
“So when you were a musician, did you always give away your stuff for free?”
Musicians should be working to please people and to win bread, not to empower the greedy. The artist doesn’t care whether people download illegally, they already sold the album to the man.
“That’s what things like iTunes is for.”
iTunes is just another form of the man, probly worse since it’s from apple.
How I see it, rich people have a song; they can give it to me for close to free and be just as well off as I, but instead they are greedy; they inflate the prices drastically. Downloading music isn’t stealing from the man, (after all, he won’t lose physical property), it’s simply refusing to hand perfectly rich people $15 for services that should cost me about $3. (That service being to record artsists and distribute the work.)
Maybe nobody should be banished from TV’s because they refuse to fund a greedy giant such as Samsung. See how that doesn’t work?
Like whom? Even if that were true (I doubt it), it still is stealing.
What if everyone thought this way about everything? You can’t be serious. The world would fall financially if nobody wanted to pay full price for anything. I really hope you see how that ideology only leads to chaos.
To not pay for something because you don’t think you should have to only brings chaos. It becomes subjective, allowing us to pay any price for anything. Really think about how something like that would work… It doesn’t.
“Maybe nobody should be banished from TV’s because they refuse to fund a greedy giant such as Samsung. See how that doesn’t work?”
Samsung makes a product, stealing a tv would be stealing inventory. Songs are not such. Not even to mention, Samsung makes a good product for a reasonable cost, and they sell their own merchandise, rather than stealing it from someone else.
Songs are products, and CD’s are inventory as well.
Well you said it’s up to us to decide what is “reasonable”. What if I don’t like the cost of TV’s? It’s all subjective to your ideology. Plus, labels don’t steal. The artists sells their stuff to the label… maybe at an unfair price, but it’s not stealing still.
The whole idea of “they stole it anyways” isn’t a very good one either.
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Matthew 5:38-42
Have you ever tapped a TV show?
Did you ever fast forward through the commercials?
Have you ever got a tapped show from a friend that you missed?
Did you ever watch it more than once?
You just stole TV under the same definition. Does this mean you should have 40,000 songs on your computer and TV shows copied from the DVD’s . No. However, it does open a very thick grey line between what taping means now and who you are borrowing it from.
Also I very much doubt the bible covered copy-right laws on digital and non-digital media in it’s chapters. The church did not pay royalties to bards who created there songs.
As to the labels stealing. Well would it be right for you to buy all the ice-cream shops in town and than jack up the price? Would it be right to tell all the owners of those ice-cream shops that they can only get Ice-cream that you make in your factory and not in anyone else’s and jack up the price further?
This is sadly what is happening.
Unless covered otherwise (which it is).
No, but essentially the same concept.
Because most hymns don’t have copyright rules. But I do believe my church has bought rights to more contemporary songs.
It’s not right, but to defy them still isn’t right morally, or legally.
“Songs are products, and CD’s are inventory as well.”
Let’s put it this way; if I steal a candy bar from 7-11, they are out a candy bar, a bar they will never be able to sell; however, if I record music off the radio, get it from friends, etc., the music company didn’t lose inventory.
It doesn’t matter, either way, they are out of money (which they deserve for the song, even if at an unfair price).
Previously in this debate you mentioned that money doesn’t define the sin, stealing does. You’ve contradicted yourself majorly.
Sorry Garrett but blue jester has done an outstanding job defending his position while you have not. I used to think file sharing was pretty crappy, but I’d have to say blue jester’s argument has completely changed my mind.
It’s not solely the money that makes it stealing.
Blue Jester has done a good job, but the entire concept is just wrong. Lots of good information and all, it’s just not how it is. You can put a whole lot of incorrect information together, but that doesn’t make it all right.
By the dfinition of modern copywrite laws, If you buy a cd, then loan it to a friend or play it for him, you have pirated. Does that make sense to you? Now no one has been taken to court over physically loaning, but it’s still illegal under current laws. If your father buys a DVD and plays it in his own living room and allows you and your mother to watch it, he has commited a crime. Have you ever watched a DVD you did not yourself buy? Then you must repent sinner. You are a pirate.
Now to me, if I buy a cd, I believe I should own that cd, I paid for it. I can buy a car and loan it to a friend. Why can I not loan my property to a friend just because it is recorded music or video? Now I can take that car, and build an exact copy of it from scratch, and give it away. But I can’t sell it because the design is not mine. Why would it be any different for music than it is for engineering?
The question is not, do the labels have rights? It’s, do the consumers have rights? You buy a physical product. It then becomes your property. You may do with it what you wish, It is yours. Making a copy of what is yours is not a sin. Sharing what is yours is not a sin. Selling what is yours is not a sin. Breaking what is yours is not a sin. If you bought it, you own it. The internet makes it easy to share, but it does not make it illegal. The laws that were bought and paid for by the labels do. And they’re wrong. Following an unjust law is not an option for someone who follows a higher law is it?
Making copys of cds and selling them is and should be illegal. But giveing away copys has never been forbiden untill now. And only for these things. Why? Stealing is profit from anothers labor. Where in shareing is the profit? No where. No money exchanges hands at all. Only information. And it’s information the sharer owns outright, he bought it.
What it boils down to is this. Do you own your own property or not. If I pay for something and then am told it’s not mine to do with what I will. I have been stolen from. They sold me an album and then tell me I can not do what I want with my property because I don’t own it. What did I pay for? What did I get? Not what I paid for, is the answer. I was ripped off. They are the thieves. They sell something and then take away my ownership of my own property.
I sell you a pig, then I tell you that you cannot feed the pig, nor can you eat the pig, nor can you allow anyone else to feed or eat the pig. Who is stealing from whom? And what did you pay for?
Do you own the disks you buy? Or don’t you? If you buy it but don’t own it, you have been stolen from. IF you own it and share it willingly, no one has been stolen from.
Do you own the disks you buy is the crux of the matter, The only question that need be asked. If you do not, then you have been stolen from.
Bj
When you buy something, you are automatically agreeing to the copyright rules.
Which does not give us the right to steal back.
For the same reason you can’t buy a copy of Photoshop, reproduce it, and send it to 100 of your friends, you can’t do the same with music.
What you don’t seem to grasp sir is that, sharing your own property is not stealing. Being given freely someone elses property is not stealing. That they SAY the label owns it does not make it so. That the Law says it is, does not make it so. Property is an old concept and well understood. You exchange coin or services or goods for an object and it becomes yours to do with what you wish. If I wish to loan a book to a friend that cannot afford to buy it who has lost money? If no money was lost then where is the theft? Ask your local librarian. Who, by the way will be happy to let you take home the latest gospel Cd’s for free to listen to and enjoy to your hearts content. Did she steal? Did you? By your definitions to date, anyone who’s checked out a disk or book from the library is a thief. Oh the horrors!
The internet is man kinds greatest library to date. Nothing more, nothing less. I can check out whatever I like, and keep it as long as I need. Just like the library down the street. It is NOT stealing. It is sharing. Just like a public Library can loan anything to anyone anytime regardless of copywrite, you too as an individual can loan your property to anyone at anytime without regard to copywrite. The law was intended to prevent people from making copys and SELLING them for profit. Which would be stealing. Sharing was never the target. Until greed (A sin remember?) tempted them to go beyond real piracy and attack innocent people who only wanted to share (like the library does) their own collections. You are not giveing away a physical object when you allow some one to check out a book or tape. You are not giving away a physical object when you allow some one to download a copy of a song you bought. You are not taking from anyone. You are not stealing. You are shareing.
To share is something the great Rabbi Je’sua bin Joseph was real big on you might recall. In fact, once or twice he even called on his flock to give up to the poor all their wordly goods and live in poverty as a path to salvation. Would it be stealing if some of those goods had been cd’s? The labels would say yes. Are they right? Can you not give someone a present of a Cd. Is that stealing? It is under copyrite laws.
Are librarys sinful? Do they steal? Do they take profits from the artist? Or do they do a public service of allowing free distribution of information so that all can know the power of words and music and cinema? My own personal library has over 7000 books in it that I loan freely to anyone who asks. It’s illegal, but not theft. I bought them. They are mine to do with what I will. I do the same for my movie collection and my music collection. It is illegal, but it is not theft. I own them, bought and paid for. If someone offers to loan me a book, I accept the offer. Have I stolen? I don’t think so, do you?
A thought, once spoken, belongs to the world. You cannot put the gini back in the bottle. A song, once sung, cannot be unsung. A picture once painted is there for eternity. It belongs to everyone and no one. It simply is. No government and no law of man can change those simple facts. To here an idea is not to steal it. It is shareing. And it’s why man is where he is today.
Ps: support your local library
Bj
When you buy the music or program or whatever, you are automatically agreeing to abide by those rules. It does make it so because you agree to it.
No. Libraries can’t just take any book they want, they have deals as well, which makes it legal.
Sharing is where two people use the same thing, but when you illegally duplicate the thing, it isn’t sharing anymore.
That’s it! If I loan you something, I no longer have it… you do! So to make a copy, and then give it to you, is stealing, and that’s what I am talking about.
Depending on how you look at it, you do make a profit by illegally copying items.
If that’s your definition of sharing, then it still doesn’t matter, since it’s illegal.
No, you haven’t stolen, since only you have the book, if whomever loaned you the book made an illegal copy, and then gave you the copy, that would be stealing (and illegal).
Whomever created it first gets the rights.
http://www.clir.org/pubs/reports/pub112/body.html#rights
Furthermore do those gospel singers think they will receive a reward in heaven for their talents?I dont think so they get their reward now.where your treasure is your heart will be there also.The love of money is the root of all evil.They should be joyfull that people who esp cant afford all the music they can get with a click of a button.The blessing it brings to people.No instead they put people like me on a guilt trip because i dont want to do no wrong i want to make heaven my home and i know the blood of Jesus is the only way but after we accept the Lord we desire to do whats right.The nerve they have.To me its ugly.God have mercy on greedy gospel singers,they have a talent and they say pay me.lol
just to clarify my statement of “whats the difference between gospel singers and Lars Urich”i in no means am saying anything other than he strongly opposes downloading free music and so do gospel singers.at least some do if not most.They think there losing money but in my case its the other way around.i was going to buy the music that wasnt available for free.like Fred Johnson,when i use to search on limewire he didnt show up.But i will not buy any because i believe gospel singers should change the copyright laws to their music by limiting it to just your not aloud to copy and sell for a profit.untill then hallelujah anyhow.IAM DONE NOW GOD BLESS.Let everything that has breathe praise the Lord.He is worthy of our praise!!!
I love gospel music.It blesses me i laugh and cry and am so full of joy when i listen to good gospel music.Before i knew it was illegal to download gospel music off limewire it didnt bother me.When i found out it was it did bother me.The problem i have is this,gospel singers are no better than the world.I can see have copyright laws where your not aloud to copy and sell for a profit but if i buy a gospel cd and i want to make copys for my family members to share the blessing that should be legal and ok.To me i look at at gospel singers in a knew light,they dont sing to bless anyone they sing for money.Iam not talking about the worldly singers iam talking about people who are suppose to be born-again.How much does it cost to make a cd anyways?All this done for me is make me miss out on listening to my favorite gospel music because i sure aint going to give those greedy singers a penny!Instead iam buying a song book and will sang to the Lord even though i cant carry a tune in a bucket.I think its a shame we are in the world but not of the world.whats the difference from gospel singers and Lars Urich?If you have 2 coats give away one.Give,share bless somebody else.To bad its alays about money. sincerly phillip farley
you know i been reading alot of what different web pages are saying about this subject.before i found out about this i was doing good feeling strong in the Lord.(i recently repented after years of being backsliden)i didnt think what i was doing was wrong infact i thought it was a small work i could do for God to go get me some blank cds and start passing out gospel music because I know its a blessing and can change peoples lifes(if the music is annointed)now i seem to be falling away again.i guess next you will say people will go to hell for not paying hospital bills.so i guess theres no hope for poor people.this weight is heavy.wheres the love?did you see JESUS make the people pay 99cents for a fish when he fed them?does our salvation cost money? i just dont get it. why its wrong because it shouldnt be. nothing that blesses another should be wrong and i mean that in a good way towards GOD.
ALSO IF YOU GOT THE POWER TO DO SO POST MY COMMENTS ANYWHERE YOU CAN YOU HAVE MY (COPYRIGHT) PERMISSION I WOULD LOVE FOR THE GOSPEL MUSIC SINGERS TO KNOW HOW THIS AFFECTS PEOPLES LIFES.
i also read where the assumption is if i download music then they are losing a potential customer to buy. what a foolish statment. let me give you an example. the crab family. i would listen to some of there songs but after i read where they was glad about the supreme court passing laws about this matter brother you couldnt give me a crab family cd let alone go out and buy it. i would throw it in the garbage.i know i have sumbmited quit a few comment messages on this subject as i guess you can see this thing is tearing me up.in one word UNBELIEVEABLE
do you want to here something contrary to what you say to people i dont know why it didnt come to me before but thats how i came back to the Lord. i was living in sin like no other and for some reason i started downloading familar gospel songs i use to worship God with. it didnt happen the first time or second and so forth but one day i was listening to precious Lord sung by Al Green. I was singing along (still a very sinful man)and God visited me in that room He washed me clean of my sins and i began to speak in tongues and i cried out to the Lord i miss you Jesus I MISS YOUR PRESENCE IN MY LIFE. and this happened because of the abilty to be able to download gospel music and you along with countless others call it a sin. That right there answers my question for me i dont care what man says i care about what God says. how could i get back with God threw a sin. you cant. hallelujah. even if the law would put me in jail for this that doesnt mean its wrong with God. the law use to kill christians. (as the football anouncers say about stupid plays comeon man)
i just read what you wrote at the top of the page and pondered on it.’if you take something that someone else bought and use it like you bought it its stealing’ mmmmmmmm well every year at christmas time we all steal. think about it. do you see how foolish your statement sounds? iam at my mothers home i think i will take a shower and use her shampoo- oh o- wait a minute i didnt buy the shampoo if i use it i will be stealing. no the internet is a way to spread the gospel through songs and preaching all over the world. i can see the devil fighting this, i can see ungodly people fighting this but i cant see people who are born again fighting this. look the christians who are singers should not opperate as the world because we are not of this world any more. it seems there biggest defense against file sharing is their livlihood.it boils down to trusting the LORD seek yiu first the kingdom of God and His rightousness and all these things will be added unto you. i could take a cd and put annointed music on it and give it to my brother who is lost and through him listening to it – it just maybe that the annointing from that music breaks the yoke and he gets set free.souls saved. thats what it is all about.lets none of us lose sight of that because thats a man or women after Gods own heart.GOD BLESS and everyday no matter how we feel let us praise the LORD.Thank you for the time.
Your missing Garette’s point. He is pointing that a duplication of something is illegal. If you went to your mothers home, took the shampoo and made an EXACT duplicate in some fantasy way, that would be stealing. It would make a free copy of that shampoo that you never would have paid for. Other people take it a step further online. Say another person gets some shampoo at their mothers house, take it and duplicate it down to every last detail, and then take it to a open stands handing them out to the public without the companies permission. Wouldn’t you think that would get law force attention?
Read these scriptures.
Romans 13:5-7:
Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
Jesus paid his taxes in the bible. He thought it was right to pay whom you owe money to.
In Matthew 22:15-22 Jesus was accused of not paying taxes to Ceaser. He proved them wrong white saying “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”
The music/movie/ect. companies own rights to these music, and Jesus would pay for these forms of media if he had the choice on earth. Isn’t it right to live by the bible’s teachings? Excuses such as “they are too expensive” or “Companies are rich and don’t deserve the money” don’t make up for the fact that file sharing copyrighted materials is illegal.
Edit: I meant He proved them wrong *by* saying.
enough said for me Mr.Marquis like i said before iam done with gospel music from now on i will sing and make melody in my heart to the Lord with a song book, so gospel music artist you lost a customer forever and i lost nothing for my praises are even more real,hallelujah!!! now you want to debate a topic try should christians be like the world and have copyrights?
something else to think about-gospel singers filing lawsuits on people who share music – brother in Christ taking brother in Christ to court and to be judged by unbelievers- do i need to say more? you know your bible right?
Sharing is not stealing. No one is deprived of anything they are owed. You can argue that the labels “own” any copy of the works but it’s simply not true in any real sense. There is no difference between burning a copy for a friend and playing the music on your ipod when your friend is present to hear it, none. If you let your friends watch your new DVD the label will say you are stealing because your friends didn’t pay them for it. It’s simply not true. Making a mix disc of love songs for your girl friend is not stealing. Never has been. The labels are owed nothing for anything you do with a copy of their product that you payed for. You can share it, sell it, use it as a coaster, whatever, it’s none of their buissness because you own the disk.
Bj
The thing is, file sharing is sharing with people you don’t know. Are they your friends letting just you use/copy/ect. their copy? No, a very large number of downloads are made on file sharing clients. It’s a different thing to let people you know borrow/keep a physical copy, or letting them hear it. It’s another thing to make something widely available on the internet for free as an alternative to purchasing it for themselves. It is costing music industries a lot of money from the sharing. God wouldn’t approve of the amount of illegal sharing, he would want all laws to be practiced. You don’t the know the true intention of the copiers out there. Some have viruses, some are done to break the law, some try to spread it for the needy in good intention, but it is all illegal sharing online with millions of people. Good thing we are quick to be forgiven because of what Jesus did. I know us humans aren’t supposed to be perfect, but it is a good thing to try to follow what Jesus taught.
yes but it was against the law to pray one time long ago to,but thank God Daniel still prayed!!! and furthermore LOL iam so amazed at christian attiudes but anyway copyrights hinders the word of the Lord through music christians should not have copyright laws,now that should be the issue,calling me a thieve cause i want to praise the Lord shouldnt be the issue.do preachers say you cant listen to there sermon if you dont put money in the offering? no!!! so then gospel music artist should not have copyright laws,or at least limit it to piracy i.e.selling copyright materials,that i can see,Lord have mercy on you people
Well lets just look at Jesus for your example here. He took a few fish and a few loaves and “Copied ” them to feed the masses right? Now the fishermen and the bakers didn’t get paid for all those extra copies of fish and loaves as far as we know. Jesus was a Fish/Bread Pirate. And he gets praise for this?
As for the labels losing money because of sharing, show me proof of that that was not compiled “by” the labels but by independent market watchers. You can’t, because all the independent data contradicts the Labels position. In fact they are increasing profits all the time regardless of file sharing. Sharing promotes sales according to independent analysis. The labels cried fowl when eight track recorders came out claiming they would lose money, they didn’t. Labels cried fowl when cassettes came out claiming they would lose money, they didn’t. Labels cried fowl when VHS came out claiming they would lose money, they didn’t. They are not losing money now. They are making more than ever. These are all facts.
Sharing is not stealing, this too is a fact.
Bj
So pretty much, you think it’s OK to download as much music as you want for free? Would you encourage everybody to go out and download off of a sharing client, torrent website to their hearts content to get free music, DVDs, programs, video games and everything else? It just doesn’t seem right to get something like Photoshop that costs hundreds of dollars for free. If you think sharing is not that bad, and can give me a good enough reason to change my feeling on the subject, I will go out and honestly download every single album I ever wanted and download Photoshop for free because I want them with no charge. I have no money to spend on them right now, but I just don’t feel right about doing that because of the extreme cost. I will change my mind if you can find it in yourself to convince me that downloading hundreds of dollars worth of items is of positive intentions.
there not losing money believe me,i made up my mind i dont want to listen to ANY gospel music singers who are against file sharing, its a song book and thank you Jesus i go,why would i spend money on them with that kind of attitude? all of it just sheds light on me about it,they are no more than entertainers who want paid period.
No I think that if a stranger walks up to you in the street and hands you a copy of a song or movie and says hey man listen to this, that taking it is not a sin and not theft. I also think if I buy an album then I own that album, I paid for it and no one any where anywhy can tell me what I can and can’t do with my property. This album is mine, period, if I want to give it away it’s my right and if I want to record it to tape thats my right, and if I want to share it with my friends or even strangers, that’s my right. I bought it and paid for it and it’s mine. Once it is sold to me no one else has a right to my property, thats what property rights are.
Bj
Ok now what if someone takes a paid copy of a DVD, takes it home, illegally copies it, and then gives it to you? Now you and him both have a copy, but only 1 copy was paid for. Is that wrong?
When you buy an album, you are submitting to the conditions of the original album holder, the record company most likely. Now the record company states that you have the rights to a certain point. When you buy the album, you are saying that those conditions are fine for you.
The record company still owns rights to the item you bought as well, as I described above. So you don’t have the right to make copies and give them away.
Try using that in court.
First let me remind you , you started this with the question of if copying and sharing is a sin. What the law says about this is about protecting profits for corporations. It is not based in morals or ethics. Copyright law was instated at the behest of T. Edison early on in the last century in order to protect his profits from recorded media. What has followed in the last century is a systematic theft of artist’ work by corporations. Thats stealing and a sin. You see the artist no longer owns his work. He gets nothing from it after his contract expires but the company still continues to profit. If the artist trys to bypass the company and record on his own and distribute on his own, the company will sue or otherwise prevent him from doing so.
Copying does not deprive anyone of anything. Sharing lets ideas and experiences be seen and heard by those who would never of heard it at all. This is not a sin, though it is a crime. They are different things. It’s a crime to drive to fast but it’s not a sin. Get it? What the law says and what is moral or “right” are not the same thing.
Soon you will see more and more artists leaving out the labels and producing their works on their own and distributing on their own. And you will see the Labels attempting and likely succeeding in preventing them from doing so through legislation and censorship. That will be a crime and a sin.
When I buy an album I submit to no other claims to it’s ownership in anyway. You cannot “own” information nor can you control it once the information is distributed. Was it right for the church to have printers put to death for publishing the Bible in English? No it wasn’t, but it was the law. Get it?
Bj
So what you say is that sinning has to do with moral value and is different from crime? Ok, so assuming you have practiced file sharing, has it benefited anything good other than for your own benefit? A lot of people file share for their own self, so they can get an album for free. Jesus didn’t copy food for himself any time he wanted, he only did it for the needy, and for a miracle example. If I download the latest album from my favorite artists, it’s only befitting me. And when you file share online, you most likely file share with anonymous people who let thousands of people also share. I could see the value of sharing with a friend, just as sharing a sandwich, but sharing a program like photoshop worth hundreds of dollars with people you don’t know, it just doesn’t seem right. You talk a lot about sharing with real people you know, but what do you feel about sharing with people potentially in it for personal gain only? File sharing potentially leads to illegal selling. I believe that personal friend&family sharing through personal email/cd copy/ect. could be potentially good, but anonymous sharing with thousands of people you don’t know is pretty shady.
yes other people benefit if i was to pass them some good gospel music its always a blessing 2 stir peoples hearts to praise God, whats the matter with you
Hmm ..well…who would your savior share with? Only his friends? Or the world?
And assuming I have practiced file sharing, when I learn more and experience more I improve myself for myself, thats true, but does that not also benefit those around me? Did the peasants benefit, in your mind, by the illegal printing of English Bibles in the dark ages? Adding information to the common knowledge base is a great thing for all mankind. Your opinion seems to be that free distribution of information is evil but selling and controlling information and restricting information is somehow divine?
I don’t think you read the same Bible I did? Or if you did, you did not understand it.
Anonymous people are the ones you should be sharing with, the poor, and the meek, the down trodden, those that are in need, your enemys, and your friends. Isn’t that what your Saviour said? All mankind are your brothers? We will be judged by how we treat the least among us? Ring a bell?
Oh but thats shady because a guy who makes more money than any 400 of us combined might lose 5% off his bottom line this year.
Bj
I’m open to new ideas, and if I’m wrong would you please advise me of what to do? I just don’t think that downloading free programs worth hundreds of dollars is right. I would love to make christian fliers for church and other things like invitations for bible studies, but I don’t have the money. Photoshop is very expensive and cracking a security code generates a weird feeling, should I just ignore what others say and go ahead and get it for good cause? And would you say that everyone has the right to download as they wish if the sharer has good intent? I won’t purchase any cd’s anymore at all if you can lead me in the right direction. Supporting a company I like feels right though…but I don’t have the money to spend. Would you recommend me to just share movies, PC games, ect.? I’m not being sarcastic at all. I really would like to know if this sounds right.
look mr. no body cares about photo shop and games and whatever else dont tip toe through the tulips we are talking about downloading gospel music and Gods word through music should be available 4 free,yes i believe i should be able 2 download as much gospel music for free till my hearts content,so heres my question to you do you think Almighty God will send me to hell because i listen to music i didnt pay for and praise Him? i did what people want i deleted all my music, so now what,the gospel music artist still dont have no money from me because iam not buying nothing from them because of there atitude, so no money lost no money gained,what is it then? i am limited to listen and praise God with gospel music,who does it hurt if i download music and listen to it? either way nobodies getting any money from me.
I would recommend you do what “you” feel is right based on your morals and understanding. File sharing “is” illegal under current law. My point is and has been that Illegal and Sinful are not the same things. In fact your savior acted counter to the laws of Jerusalem on many occasions according to your bible. Counter to this, being legal does not make an act free of sin. It’s legal to pass a begger by and ignore him, in fact it’s encouraged. But it is sinful according to your savior. As is keeping any more money than you need to survive.
Now if you’re under the impression that your morals come from the Bible, then sharing is ok and good. If your morals come from society at large as you seem to be indicating, then sharing is wrong.
As an atheist I try to never tell anyone “what” they should think about a subject, only that they “should” think about it and draw their own conclusions.
Bj
On the contrary:
(1 Peter 2:13) – “Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,”
We are supposed to obey the law, as long as it doesn’t interfere with God’s:
(Acts 5:29) – “But Peter and the apostles answered and said, We must obey God rather than men.”
Now you say that sharing is a good thing according to the Bible. This is true, but stealing to share defeats the purpose… Are you a supporter of socialism? Socialists believe they should give the poor money, but take it from the rich first!
There is a wrong way to do right things, and that is not what God has called us to do.
“”On the contrary:
(1 Peter 2:13) – “Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,”
We are supposed to obey the law, as long as it doesn’t interfere with God’s:
(Acts 5:29) – “But Peter and the apostles answered and said, We must obey God rather than men.””
This makes my argument not yours. God tasks you to share, the law makes it illegal, whom do you follow?
but stealing to share defeats the purpose…
And once again, copying is not stealing, it is legal and allowed. Sharing is illegal, not copying. And at no point is it theft. No one loses anything.
As for socialism. The fact that you used a Fox news definition indicates that like so many other deluded and misinformed people in this country, you have no idea what socialism is at all. Socialism is not taking money from the rich. Socialism in it’s full form means there never will be anyone richer than the other as all wealth is shared among the people equally.
And it was your savior who invented the concept.
Rightwing idiots cry socialism as if it was a bad thing. The post office is a socialist institution. So is the fire dept., the police, the sheriff, The military, the highway dept., infact every Government service or institution is a socialist entity by it’s very nature as we all equally benefit from them regardless of class or creed. Your Church is a socialist institution as well. How does it feel to be a socialist?
Bj
Bluejester your right the law alows you to make as many copies as you want as long as you keep them for yourself and don’t share them. But sharing is illegal and is theft. You say that noone is looseing anything so it cannot be theft but the companies are loosing a large amount of profit. And god does tell us to share but he does not tell us to take what is not ours.
As for socialism are you telling me that a doctor and a janitor should have the same income?! We talk like socialism is a bad thing because it is!! Let’s ask Thomas Jefferson what he thinks of socialism, “The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not”.
sharing is not taking. and read acts. what did the church do at the beginning?when Ananias and Sapphire dropped dead.
how do you get theft out of sharing?whether i download or not they still dont get money out of me because i have none.so that blows your theory in the ocean
That is a very good point Garret Oden. Sharing is a very good thing, but it depends on the way you get things. I’m pretty sure that donating something to a person in need is good, but I don’t think they would accept as easily if they found out where the donation came from. Money comes second in everything. I’m certain that God would give enable the ability to purchase things for people if the need to give was present. We don’t need to find an alternate way, God knows what kind of country we were born into, and he knows the laws that are present. God knows everything and he can help us based on current circumstances. I Would gladly follow the law knowing that God has my back, rather than take measures into my own hands and take my help from people sharing illegally. And to BlueJester, I don’t think name calling is needed here. God wants us to share indeed, but through a law abiding way. Debating the meaning of socialism makes things more complicated than it should. Socialism does sound good and lot of people are misreading information they hear on socialism though, but that’s the kind of society we live in and I believe that God will help us in no matter what situation, if we have faith. We don’t have to work around the government, God will aid us if our hearts are in the right place. This debate is starting to turn political, rather than biblical. I think I am done here. I will read the bible instead of debating it with people, and according to the bible, were not perfect. It’s impossible to do the exact right thing all the time, God knows that. But God is perfect, and Jesus was perfect on earth as a human. We can follow his example, and we will fall, but we just have to ask for forgiveness. Everybody will most likely fall short trying to do what is right in terms of illegal sharing with all these different points of views ahead of time for that reason. Through bible searching and Church, ect. we will find an answer.God bless you all.
“Socialism in its full form means that there never will be anyone richer than the other as all wealth is shared amoung the people equally.”
And how is this achived? By taking money from one person and giving it to another. So in essentials garrets and fox new’s definition is correct.
And as for all those government institutions being socialist, does a higher ranking officer in the millitary have his money taken and given to a lower ranking officer who does not make as much? No, so these institutions,although government run, are not really socialist.
And how is this achived? By taking money from one person and giving it to another. So in essentials garrets and fox new’s definition is correct.
And as for all those government institutions being socialist, does a higher ranking officer in the millitary have his money taken and given to a lower ranking officer who does not make as much? No, so these institutions,although government run, are not really socialist.
You are confusing Communism with Socialism. Socialism is defined as a system that all contribute to and all benefit from equally. Socialism is a good thing, Communism is an interesting take on socialism but historically impossible to achieve in a large Government. All forms of Government including ours are Socialist to a degree. As for your military question, both officers are paid by you and me as well as contribute from their pay back into the pool from which they are paid. So yes in effect the high ranking officer helps pay the low ranking one, but the low ranking one helps pay the high one too.
Some socialism is necessary in any Government and it is a good thing to a point. Taken to extremes you get communism. Capitalism taken to extremes is Fascism. Neither are good for the common man.
As for the Sharing debate, we can agree to disagree on this I think. My last point in it all would be to restate my belief that My property rights on things I pay for are just as if not more “real” than the rights of any record label. I paid for it so they made their money, what I choose to do with it afterwards is absolutely none of their business.
Bj
“You are confusing communism with socialism”
I merly used your definition. But that’s beside the point. The government has no right to take money from one person and give it to another.
And on the sharing topic, yes you paid for it and in doing so you own the product but the people you shared it with have not purchased the product and the companies have not been paid their dues.
“I merly used your definition”
Correct and I apologize, I should have been clearer.
“The government has no right to take money from one person and give it to another.”
Hmm… well lets look at this. The Government has to tax in order to exist and carry out it’s obligations to the public. So in effect it not only has the right to take money away but has the right to spend that money on our behalf and is obligated to do so resulting in someone else getting that money so…well you see where I’m going here. The principle role of Government is to provide for the common defense of the people and to promote the general welfare of the public. Sometimes I’m afraid, that means giving money to those that cannot, for whatever reason, earn it themselves. It’s the governments purpose. Now a system like this can be abused and that is wrong, but you must remember, for every welfare queen there is a man who can’t find a job that pays a living wage. Company’s continue to move jobs overseas or to mexico for cheap labor and profits Which is great for business, bad for workers. Go check out Flint Mi. if you want to see what profits before people gets you. In my mind the Government would step in and tell the company’s they can’t build a car in Mexico and sell it here but then the politicians would say that the government is interfering with corporate profits. Go figure.
As for sharing…. Let me try an analogy that simplify’s it all. I buy a washing machine. I did not design it nor invent it. A friend of mine needs a washing machine. It just so happens that I have a nifty little machine that takes raw materials and shapes it into whatever shape I tell it to. I tell it to make a copy of my washing machine. It is an exact duplicate of the original but it was made by my machine and not the factory. Now it doesn’t have the fancy paint job or flashy cosmetics of the original, but it’s fully functional and serviceable for washing clothes. Is it stealing if I give it to my friend? My materials, My machine that copys it, My bought and paid for Washing Machine for the model. Where in all that did I take someting from someone else that did not belong to me? Granted, If I started mass producing washing machines and selling them for profit I would be in violation of the law that protects the profits of the patent holder. But that is because I am taking profit from them. Someone who could not or never would pay for something like my washing machine but needs one who is given a gift of my copy’d washing machine benefits, but no one loses. If I sold it to him..then the company loses. Then I would be taking money that does not belong to me. But no where in all of this have I taken anything from anyone.
And just FYI… The record and film industry’s are still making a killing and still as profitable as ever. In fact they are setting records and post the biggest box office totals for titles that are already pirated and in the public pervue even before release.
Bj
I have deleted all my music,i deleted itunes period,i even deleted limewire,i mean if its wrong to download music and your going to call me a thief if i do whats the sense in having it.Now are you happy? Does that make you feel better? Now am i going out to buy some gospel music? No way!!! gospel music artist can keep their copyrights and take their music with them.Gene Martin has no record label so i will listen to him but other than that any gospel music artist that is against file sharing i will not listen to.i will sing and make melody in my heart to the Lord. i was backslide and just came back to the Lord and was full of joy listening to all the gospel music i could download and then was hit with hay your a thief,brother and sisters i was broke and no job and cant afford to go out and buy nothing and i am being told i cant listen to gospel music and praise God unless i pay for it,cant you see the wrong in this,cant you see the ugliness of it? Do you hear what i am saying? Free Gods music,let people share music and praise God!!! We dont need record labels and copyrights.You say thats how we make our living,i say by the sweat of your brow eat bread,You say singers are like preachers and are worthy of compensation,i say preachers dont say you cant hear my sermon if you dont put money in the offering but are welcomed just as much as anybody who does give.Maybe theres nothing wrong with gospel singers receiving compensation but it is wrong for them to say i cant listen unless i pay money.Now this is coming from someone who has a true heart to follow the Lord,if i could sing, i would want my song to be heard everywhere,i would pray to God to anoint my voice to help others and i would not have copyright laws to hinder someone being blessed!!! i do however since i was young have a strong calling on me i believe to preach and some day would like to fulfill that calling,i have a myspace profile page come by my friends and be blessed,its under phillip farley,there are a few phillip farleys but you will be able to tell my page when your on it,God bless each and everyone those that agree and those that disagree alike,in the Lord i love you!!!
The best way to praise the Lord is by your actions. By stealing music, you disappoint Him, not give Him the glory.
Praising God is not limited to listening to gospel music. Praise Him with your life, not your stolen music.
I don’t necessarily believe record companies are always fair, but read this short verse:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22:15-22&version=NIV
Sir you miss my point and i dont think you will ever get my point because you cant get pass “your stealing music” what is sad is that people who have a God given talent dont really use it for Gods glory,they love one thing, money.not everyone who says in that day Lord didnt we do this in your name and Lord didnt we do that in your name is going to make it in. like i said either way they are not getting money out of me so what does it hurt to let me listen to the music? and paying taxes has nothing to do with it,render to Cesar and render to God ok,what has that to do with being down right how can i put it,o yea money hungry.i gave you a perfect example-a preacher preaches and we put money in the offering for his work for God but,that preacher welcomes everyone whether they can give or not but,the gospel music artist say pay or no play,i mean its so awful i cant even buy a cd and make a copy to give to one of my family members,now you can give me scripture after scripture,the devil quote scripture to Jesus,people can twist Gods word to fit themselves,they do it all the time.now i already deleted my music and i dont download music anymore so i would at least appreciate not being called a thief.i have no more “stolen music”.COPYRIGHT LAWS should be limited to piracy and i dont believe its wrong to break this stupid law and download music to praise God with,the only reason i dont do it is i dont like being called a thief!!!i am saved from the crown of my head to the soles of my feet and i love God with all my heart.One day i will fulfill my calling and i will be known as the preacher who took NO tithes!!! Because i want to preach to save lost souls and i can work another job to support myself.but everybody doesnt have a heart like me,i read somewhere where these gospel music artist was bragging about making 10,000 in one month and here am i broke and cant listen to gospel music and praise God because people want to call me a thief,what a world we live in,God have mercy on all of you who put guilt trips on innocent souls.
DIDNT YOU READ THATS HOW I GOT REDEDICATED TO THE LORD? I WAS DOWNLOADING MUSIC AND SINGING TO THE MUSIC WHEN THE LORD VISITED ME AND GOT ME BACK ON TRACK,YOU JUST SAID I DISAPOINT HIM BY DOWNLOADING MUSIC.HOW CAN YOU BE A JUDGE AND SAY WHAT IS RIGHT AND WHAT AINT?WHERE WAS YOU WHEN GOD HANGED THE STARS?WHERE WAS YOU WHEN GOD SAID LET THERE BE LIGHT? BROTHER GOD SAVED MY SOUL AND I WAS LISTENING TO “STOLEN MUSIC” WHEN HE DID IT!!!
God makes good from bad. He always does and He’s good at it. I’m truly excited for you that you have been reunited with God, don’t get me wrong. However, your experience does not license you to take another person’s work.
Did you even read the verse I recommended to you? It talks about how the apostles didn’t know what to do with the tax situation, since they didn’t believe Caesar was their rightful king. However, Jesus said, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s.” meaning, “You may not think it’s right, but it’s his, so I want you to submit.”
I agree with you that record companies and artists do take advantage of listeners a little too often, but I don’t agree that it justifies taking the music.
I know where you are coming from, but how can you praise God by illegally copying music. What message does that send to non-believers? These are the things you must consider.
Praise God with your life and with your actions, not with downloaded music.
Thank you for your thought that you have gave to my beliefs on this matter.This is just one of those things we will never see eye to eye on,i am a believer in keeping the law of the land unless that law comes up against the word of God.why in the world would this bother someone ill never know unless its just about money and i guess thats all it boils down to,money.they want there money.but like i said no money from me will they get and this is a reality for me that i may go the rest of my life and never own a gospel music cd. you say to worship the Lord and praise him with my actions and i understand that but psalms 100:2 says serve the Lord with gladness;Come before his presence with singing. See theres something i know that maybe you dont realize,the devil hates it when you sing to God,theres something about it that the devil does everything he can to keep people from doing just that,dont be a pond for him.but rather lets put our energy in looking at the real problem and it aint dowmloading music,its the copyright laws,they need to change.but i know they probably never will,so let me get familiar with a song book and i will just sing with no music from now on.If nothing else do me a favor and dont forget me when you hear that lie,you know when they say they lose money because they lose a potential customer to buy when people download,well i dont download and because they feel that way they really did lose a potential customer to buy,if i am not good enough to listen to there music when i am broke then i am not good enough when i do have money.well nice debating with you i guess theres nothing more to say so let me leave with this,serve the LORD with gladness and come befor his presence with singing!!!
And Jesus calls you to not fight back, and give them their money; whether you want to or not. Here’s that link again: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22:15-22&version=NIV
Here’s the thing: God doesn’t care if you own gospel cds… He cars if you dedicate your life to following Him. To do that doesn’t require a gospel cd, but it’s recommended. Thank God we have radios. You can sing to the Lord all you want… for free! Woot!
See there’s something I know that maybe you don’t realize… yet: Satan hates it when you love God at all. Singing is only a small part. I know plenty of hypocrites that sing to God. Singing comes from the lips. Serve God with your life, not with your lips. That is what God has called us to do. And that is what Satan hates more.
The greatest hypocrites sing praises to God. Come before His presense with humble living!!!
God bless!
i love you and will pray for you. we all need the Lord without him we are lost.i thank Jesus for saving my soul and forgiving me my sins, i stand in the righteousness of Jesus and i am justified by his blood,lets sing a song together brother,it goes like this O HOW I LOVE JESUS AND O HOW I LOVE JESUS O HOW I LOVE JESUS BECAUSE HE FIRST LOVED ME.
I was singing today by myself to the Lord and i felt His presence. i didnt need a gospel music cd,just me singing praises to Him. i thank God that i went through this, my praises to Him seem more genuine than ever before. i really dont want to comment on what you said because i am trying to learn when people use harsh words against me not to use harsh words back. but i do want to say this i dont have to buy nothing,no where in the bible does it say i have to buy a gospel music cd. they dont love me,if i would of let this thing hurt me and backslide and end up in hell,they dont care.they sing for money,they care about money.if they sang to reach a lost soul or to help someone along their journey with God they would not object to downloading gospel music.But it doesnt matter to me anymore i am going on with my Jesus just the same.and yes i walk it i talk it and i live it brother,just wanted to let you know that because you dont know me and the condition of my heart but God does.
Its me again brother. humble living you say? Before i rededicated my life to God i lost my wife,she lives far away and i dont get to see my son and my daughter.(i have two teenage daughters i do see)but my kids from my ex wife i dont see.(very hurtful)i lost my job,i lost my apartment,i lost my car. there are those who if in my situation would either kill themselves or blame God and hate him. but in the midst of my troubles i comfort myself by listening to gospel music and now it has made me where i dont care if i have nothing as long as i got Jesus. see at first the devil was working on me to hate God and question Him “why is this happening to me” but praise God i am poor but i am rich, i have nothing but in Him i have all things. He has forgiving me all my sins and i am very grateful.The last thing i needed was to be called a thief or hypocrite but i have worked past that to,God has made it where i can go to heaven and nothing can stop me things present,things past,things eternal,things natural,the height depth or width,nothing can stop me if i want it and brother i want it.i am making heaven my home and i dont care how rough it gets or how spotless i have to be,if i need an extra touch,Jesus will touch me and see me through,once i again i love you and its not me but the Lord in me.God bless and have a blessed day!!!
now tell me where would i be if it was not possible to download gospel music off of limewire? see you never know do you?
ill answer for you, prison.i was on my way to prison because i didnt care no more and i was going to go on a robbery spree when through listening to gospel music off of limewire Jesus RESCUED me. and iam so glad he changed me,but as soon as i get changed people like you want to call me a thief.Who appointed you a judge? Who made you the almighty judge? You think you are right and you think your telling the truth but you and countless others are hurting people with this.But go ahead and tell me the same scripture for me to pay taxes. ok when i work i pay taxes. and? i wont lie i miss listening to my gospel music, i truly do. but i wont listen to it no more because people like you are not going to call me a thief. and i wont buy any either, for one i have no money,and when things get better and i have money i wont buy none. gospel music singers are living large enough.the only reason i have internet is its off somebodies signal,i guess i am stealing internet now? but keep on oppressing the poor great job!!!
you know this has been a whirlwind for me and it probably bothered me more than anyone. i want to make it to heaven and i want to be sure and do no wrong. people take a scripture and run with it. you have to put line upon line precept upon precept. i figured it out or the Lord taught me, walking in a store and putting a cd in my pocket and not pay for it is stealing.making a copy of music from someone is breaking a copyright law but it is not stealing.its breaking a law. i agree to that.i use to make copies of cassettes.i never got convicted of it,that was in the 80s when i was first saved or born again.Now Jesus (watch this now and open your mind to receive)broke a law also,all the time and Jesus had no sin,Jesus committed no sin,we know that,but when Jesus said take up your bed and walk on the sabbath day the pharisees or the saducees said hay thats not lawful to do on the sabbath day.He was breaking their law but it was not a sin. i might be breaking a law by downloading music but its not a sin. because how could it be a sin when i listen to it and praise God i feel the Spirit,i feel joyful,those are not the feelings you get when you sin,if i mess up and sin i feel bad,ashamed,because i lost connection with God and must get on my knees and ask forgiveness.at least think about it,you dont want to be teaching things that are not true,or should i say be careful with how you say things,but if that didnt shine light on you i guess call me a thief because i am getting my music back.good bye for good brother,ill remember to pray for you from time to time, i hope you make it in,with brotherly love Phillip
let me add also when i am able and i got the power to do so i will send my favorite gospel music artist a love offering for my downloaded music,i am fair and i understand about paying dues. but hay p2p is a good thing, it might of saved me from prison or even death, so dont knock it brother.
Don’t get me wrong! I’m very happy that God unblinded you as well! I really am happy for it! However I’m afraid you don’t understand that God has called us to obey the laws of man for now.
MARK 3:1-6
1Another time he went into the synagogue, and a man with a shriveled hand was there. 2Some of them were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath. 3Jesus said to the man with the shriveled hand, “Stand up in front of everyone.”
4Then Jesus asked them, “Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they remained silent.
5He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored. 6Then the Pharisees went out and began to plot with the Herodians how they might kill Jesus.
We both agreed that if the law of man breaks the law of God, it is God’s law that we will follow. In this case, Jesus wasn’t breaking a law, He was following His Father’s! There’s another verse that I cannot remember where Jesus says to the pharasees, “The Sabbath isn’t here as a law to be followed, but as a gift of rest from God. You aren’t supposed to serve the Sabbath. God made the Sabbath to serve you!”
Jesus didn’t break anyone’s law.
1 Peter 2:13 “Submit yourself to every ordinance of man . . . to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors.”
By breaking the law, we are still sinning. By disrespecting the people that really own the music, you are also sinning there (Romans 13:1-3).
I’m interested in how it saved you from possible death. Sounds like a good story! I only knock it when I believe it becomes detrimental.
the more i talk to you the more you sound like a kid that hasnt been through anything. when you have lost everything and you dont care no more and you are about to go on a robbery spree,well put two and two together,theres cops out there with guns and they will shoot you. i do submit myself,i dont break the laws of God.now man has added many extra laws,if i go 10miles over the speed limit i break a law but its not a sin.out of the heart comes every wicked thing,those are sins,read it for yourself,mark 21-23 these things defile a man,not sharing music.you dont get it i am obeying God rather than man when i listen to my downloaded songs i speak in tongues and feel the Spirit,i dont think God minds at all,and like i said when i get back on my feet ill send a love offering. it sounds like to me you need to sit down and learn before you try and teach another. this law is suppose to keep people from copying and selling for a profit but greed has set in and made it to where its absurd.disrespecting? whos disrespecting who? what kind of heart do you have? to say to a soul in despair who is reaching out, about ready to go down for the last time,and say to that soul o you cant listen to a song that might get the anointing on you to break those yokes of bondage unless you cough up some money.wheres the compassion,to me your breaking that law,you have no fruits of the Spirit. without love you have nothing.you read the bible with a carnal mind. do you even have the baptism of the HOLY GHOST WITH THE EVIDENCE OF SPEAKING IN TONGUES? i am sorry but i cant waste no more time with you, you need to to pray for some love in your heart.without love you cant help nobody
mark 7 21-23
let this sink in, breaking a copyright law is not stealing,breaking a copyright law is not stealing, breaking a copyright law is not theft. me going in a market place and putting items in my pockets and sneaking out the door is theft. somebody somewhere bought some music and they are willing to share and let me have a copy,thats breaking copyrights but not theft. what part dont you understand?
copyrights a greedy law i might add
I WAS DONE.BUT I AM COMING BACK BECAUSE I AM TRYING TO HELP YOU.YOU HAVE MADE STATEMENTS ON HERE THAT ARE LIES AND I DONT THINK YOU REALIZE STILL.THE ONLY REASON THAT MAKING A COPY OF A TAPE OR CD FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS BOUGHT SOME MUSIC IS WRONG IN YOUR EYES IS A COPYRIGHT LAW BASED ON GREED.IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH STEALING.I BUY A CD AND MAKE A COPY OF IT AND GIVE IT TO MY BROTHER OR MY MOTHER OR WHOMEVER,NOBODY HAS STOLE NOTHING.AT BEST I AM BREAKING A COPYRIGHT LAW THAT IS BASED ON GREED.
Copyright laws are not based on greed, they are there to insure the artist gets payed for his work. If we didn’t have these laws artists would not make any money because noone would pay for something that is offered free.
then get a job like everybody else. look christians are different from wordly people.if you got a talent from God use it for His glory not for money.
i dont care what you say i am going to praise God any way. i will listen to my downloaded music and worship the Lord and he is my JUDGE not you and not a copyright law but God Almighty is my JUDGE. its a law because they dont want you to make a copy and bless someone o no they want every single person to buy it. thats greedy.
you got that right. free. what a blessing
the rich man came to the Lord and said what can i do to have eternal life? Jesus said keep the commandments.The man said i do. Jesus said sell all your possessions and give it to the poor and you will have eternal life. The man went away sorrowful. why do Gospel music artist and preachers think they got to be rich? Godliness with contentment is great gain. you got it backwards. its more blessed to give than receive.
right now i am poor and i have 0 dollars. Are you saying gospel music artist are so stingy they are against me downloading some music so i can praise God and have a good time in the Lord when i cant afford it otherwise? is that what you are saying? doest sound Christ like to me
MY DAD WAS THE 3RD RICHES MAN IN KENTUCKY AT ONE TIME. WHEN THE LORD SAVED HIM AND SENT HIM TO PREACH HE GAVE UP THE MONEY TO DO GODS WILL.HE WAS A BLACK JACK DEALER WHO BEAT PEOPLE OUT OF THERE MONEY.HE WAS A CASINO MANAGER TURNED PREACHER.HE PREACHED THE WORD WITH SIGNS AND MIRACLES FOLLOWING AND MANY CAME TO THE LORD. AND HE WORKED 3 JOBS SOMETIMES. SO DONT TELL ME GOSPEL MUSIC ARTIST NEED THERE MONEY. IAM LAST OUT OF 12 KIDS AND WE NEEDED MONEY BAD ONE TIME AND MY DAD FORGOT ABOUT SOME MONEY THAT WAS IN THE BANK FOR YEARS.IT WAS 500.00 BACK THEN ALOT MORE MONEY THAN TODAY.GOD SPOKE TO MY DAD TO GIVE IT TO A PREACHER AND HE OBEYED. WE LIVE IN A MONEY HUNGRY WORLD IF YOU CANT SEE THAT YOU ARE BLIND BUT HOW DARE YOU TELL PEOPLE THEY ARE STEALING BECAUSE THEY DOWNLOAD SOME MUSIC AND PRAISE THE LORD.
Mark 7:21-23 Tells what defiles a man. Stop saying its a sin downloading gospel music. Are any of you people on here really saved? Are you really born again? Or am i talking to sinners?
lol you are a teenager. all this time i never knew that. i cant say it makes a difference though theres folks alot older with this sad view. ok for you guys to say this is a sin that means you are saying people will go to hell for downloading gospel music and praising the Lord. correct? for the wages of sin is death. is that what you guys are saying? my heavenly Father will send me to hell for downloading gospel music? please answer this question more than any other i really want to here this
If i was a gospel music singer and thats how i made my money; and someone ask me do i want copyrights to detour people from downloading my music, and people was downloading my music and it affected my “pockets”, i was losing money, i would say no to copyrights because i care more about helping someone than i do about money. its not just a song. its encouragement, it helps us to get connected with God and we need this. i need it. praise is not just a little part, its a big part. praise helps break many bondages. and is a sweet smelling savor to our God. i can be down in the valley and very discouraged and then begin to listen to a song and praising God, the next thing i know i am on the mountain top encouraged. discouragement is one of the devils biggest tools, so why are you people discouraging me from listening to some good gospel music?
They have jobs, they are musicians. I agree christians should set themselves apart from others through their actions but they have a right to make money as much as the next person. Without the money they make from cd sales they would be unable to continue to make music and therfore unable to glorify God with their talents.
Im glad to hear it, never stop praising God.
Is it not greedy to want the music but not pay for it?
We all committ sins wether you download or not, so from what you said we would all be condemed. That is why God sent his son Jesus to die for our sins, so to answer your question no i dont think God will send you to hell for downloading music.
no its not greedy to want music and not pay for it when you have no money.
look saying they have jobs they are musicians aint saying nothing. my dad preached and worked two other jobs.
all your going to do is cause people to backslide and their blood be on your hands. and we dont have sins. if, IF, let me say again IF we commit a sin we have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the righteous.we dont have to sin, we are free from sin. but IF we do we ask Jesus for forgiveness.
maybe people are living above their means i dont know what the problem is with people. money,money,money. i just read again for the 2nd time about the Crab family being happy about a supreme court ruling on this matter. i wish more gospel music artist who feel like them would speak up also so i know not to listen to them and know not to put ant money in their pockets and will tell as many as i can to keep people from listening to them. and i use to like them untill i read for myself what they are about, money. its simple make the music, trust in God, if music doesnt pay the bills at least your music is helping people and go mout and get a job to pay the bills. if all your singing for is money and your a christian you need to stop singing anyway, you cannot love God and money,its one or the other-Matthiew 6;24
SORRY FOR THE SPELLING MISTAKES
Is it greedy to want music and not pay for it. what a joke. i lost everything. i have nothing. been back with the Lord a short while now and i was feeling so strong in the middle of my despair because i would put on my gospel music and feel the Spirit and be so full of joy.(the joy of the Lord is our strength) but you guys with countless others have so discouraged me that i am at my lowest point since i rededicated myself to the Lord.
Phill, listen to what you want. If it fills your heart with joy then thats what really matters. Music is not something that can be sold regardless of the law. It is and always has been an expression of joy or emotion that is intended to generate empathy from the listener. If your spirit is troubled by pirating music then dig into your pockets and spend 5$ on a Harmonica and make your own music and dedicate it to your God if that makes you feel better.
Bj
No it dont bother me anymore thanks.I let it bug for awhile,then i realized anything that comes against you that makes you not want to serve God then its not coming from God. People are just confused and they try to make you confused also. They like to quote scriptures at you,lol i got a scripture for them its 1 Corinthians chapter 13, the whole chapter. Love
acts 5:29
What kills me is after you show them its not stealing its breaking a copyright law they still maintain at the top of the page that its stealing. It doesnt matter how you slice it its not stealing. Theres no difference In taking a cass. tape and making a copy than downloading off of limewire. Its somebody who has bought some music and is willing to share it with you,that in the laws eyes is breaking a copyright law but nobody is stealing anything. Saying they are losing money is an opinion.I read where a southern gospel music singer said you might as well took 16.00 dollars out the cash register.Now making that statement makes me question where is heart is because thats a lie.
THOU SHALT NOT LIE
A little clarification so to be more explanatory. Just because i make a copy of a cd someone else bought does not mean if i do or if i dont make the copy i am going to go and buy it anyways.So to say i am taking 16.00 dollars out of the register or that i am stealing is absurd.If i make a copy doesnt mean the music artist is losing money from me because whos to say i would of bought it if it wasnt available for free? i made up my mind on this one if i buy any gospel music it will be from ones who dont fuss over copyrights.