1. The sexually assualted shouldn’t have to pay for another’s crime
Here is something I found on a YahooAnswers page:
The first argument that always arises against the Christian stance on
abortion is, “What about cases of rape and/or incest?” As horrible as
it would be to become pregnant as a result of rape and/or incest, does
that make the murder of a baby the answer? Two wrongs do not make a
right. The child who is a result of rape/incest could be given up for
adoption to a loving family unable to have children on their own – or
the child could be raised by its mother. Again, the baby should not be
punished for the evil acts of its father.
Whether you like it or not, it’s a good answer.
2. The fetus isn’t a human
Oh brother, I hate this one. This is just one of those last resort excuses that people use to rationalize their stupid schemes.
“you know, everyone who is for abortion was once a fetus.” – http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080722144747AAQeYur
Here is a passage from Gospelway.com
Deuteronomy 24:16 says: “The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.” Justice is one of the weightier matters of the law (Matt. 23:23). May we kill an innocent baby after it is born, because its parents sinned? No, and killing an unborn baby for his parents’ sin is likewise a miscarriage of justice.
3. The child will be born into poverty
My grandparents were dirt poor when they gave birth to my mother. I am oh-so happy my mother wasn’t aborted. Who is to say they cannot pick themselves up? Should we just kill all the poor people? Who are you to say that you cannot be poor but happy?
4. The child will suffer from down syndrome
I agree with this one. Let us just kill all the people that aren’t all there. We can make a race without people will a little difficulty. We can put them all into concentration camps, and murder all the incoming ones. Soon there will be none left! Sound familiar at all?
5. The child will be abused or neglected
“Abortion is the ultimate abuse!” – Gospelway.com
Which is worse:
- Possibly abused for some time. Will get chance to move away.
- No choice to live.
6. The mother will die if the baby is not aborted
- “Abortion is never necessary to save the life of the mother” – Dr. Joseph P. Donnelly
- “…the reasons for therapeutic abortion (to save the mother’s life) have disappeared” -Dr. John Hand
- “Medical reasons for provoking abortion are just about non-existent. In fact, no basis on pure medical grounds ever really stands up” – Dr. Bernard Pisani, Family Review, 1981.
Between 1967 and 1990, only 151 abortions have been carried out to save the mother’s life, a figure amounting to 0.004% of all abortions. (Dr Michael Jarmulowicz, cited in The Physical and Psycho-Social effects of Abortion on Women: A Report by the Commission of Inquiry into the Operation and Consequences of The Abortion Act, June 1994 p. 5)
If we can go back 28 years and need very few medical reasons to abort a baby, I think this argument has little power.
7. It’s the woman’s body! She has a choice!
“But the fact that the baby is inside of the mother doesn’t mean that she has the right to determine if it should live or die.” – Audra Daniel
8. The mother will get fat
This has to be one of the most pathetic, frustrating, self-centered, stupid, lame excuses I have ever heard. I really hope you would agree with me! Some of the others have a little bit of reason (just faulty reason after examination), but this one belongs in the dump with the other garbage. And I know somebody who has had an abortion thanks to her selfishness.
9. Abortions will take place in alleys if outlawed
This is probably true, but should we allow murder just because it happens often? What about rape? Robbery? They all happen daily, should they be allowed? If we use that as a reason to legalize abortion, then we have lost the battle and let this immoral cause influence us.
10. The child just won’t be wanted
I totally understand not wanting more kids running around, but there are so many couples that cannot have kids of their own. I can list five off the top of my head. There are so many places to put your kids up for adoption, and though I don’t support that, I choose that rather than murder. If you weren’t able to have a kid of your own and wanted one, would you like it if there were no kids to adopt?
You simply just cannot justify this murder. It cannot be done, but I would like to hear your thoughts anyways!
A good compilation.
Isn’t that aweful?! Ugh, it makes me sick! There are so many women out there who cant get pregnant and yet those women who get pregnant “by accident” are so scared they’re gonna get fat that they abort. It’s sick!
Thanks!
Yeah it is! But then again, I have my share of faults too.
whack jobs- all of you
Do you, J.C., support choice?
Great job J.C., you definitely composed your argument well, and I know we’re all convinced of your assertion because of all the supporting details and citations with which you’ve richly decorated your comment.
Haha yes arguments that full of information are hard to go against!
I don’t suppose this J.C. character will crawl back out of the shadows and defend his stance. Darn.
What is there to argue?
I’m not quite sure, I was just expecting a follow-up comment since we were kind of bashing him.
This argument is so old, I can’t believe people discuss it. Some things do not affect you, therefore, I think you should just let it go. JC probably didn’t respond because JC probably has better things to do.
With all due respect, this is tragedy of the commons. Good things happened in history primarily because someone decided to care about things that didn’t concern them directly but just out of love.
Why not?
He just got tired of hearing the truth.
I think it is terriable when people want to abort because they didnt want a child. So why did they have sex in the frst place??????
Good question.
That is all nice, but…
7. It’s the woman’s body! She has a choice!
“But the fact that the baby is inside of the mother doesn’t mean that she has the right to determine if it should live or die.” – Audra Daniel
This out of all them is the most reasonable argument, yet your attempt to negate it is very limited. Why doesn’t she have the right? I mean it’s not like you back that up. The thing grows inside of her, uses her body for food, and lives in there. If she doesn’t want it, then what’s the big deal? People get all emotional and say that it deserves a life/chance, but lets be realistic (although cynical as it may be); who really cares? Lots of people die every day due to many other problems, much more serious problems, and although these issues get addressed heavily, the fact that so much attention is given to abortion shows how little people actually care. To be put bluntly, all the people who care this much about are total hypocrites.
Also there is no where in this compilation about if the the receiver of the impregnation is a teenager or not. Pregnancies aren’t exactly the easiest things to go through I am sure, and it messes with emotional and physical stability. That’s 9 months of not being at 100%. At the age of 16 there is still lots of time to become a good person, be successful, and possibly change the world, so why does she need to risk what will probably be in here senior year of high school? Now a days in this knowledge based economy a screw up in the last year of high school can mean an abysmal failure of a life for that person. Why do this? For a baby that could possibly miscarriage and will most likely have to be put up for adoption (which takes time, effort and money).
Sorry for this super long post, I don’t know why I bothered to type this all for such a small site, it’s just that people who are against abortion really piss me off.
But still she wouldnt need an abortion and MURDER someone life if she just didnt have sex. I think people should only have sex if they want children. So if a woman is 16 and still in school and dosnt want to have a child then for goodness sake, just dont have SEX!!!!!! I think this is just stupid! If you dont want a child then dont have sex! Wait untill you want a child isnt that what sez is about? So then if people do this there wont be any need to have an abortion! I think the only excuse for an abortion is: If the mother is going to die if she give birth or the baby has a genetic disorder!
If the baby has a genetic disorder, kill it?
What the @#$%. There are TONS of people who have downs syndrome, XXY syndrome, Huntingtons, sickle cell anemia, hemophilia, cystic fibrosis, etc. that are nice people, real people, people who enjoy life, and people who have the same right to live as you do.
no what i meant is that some parents who find out that thier child has an serious disorder and i mean it a serious one like they cant do anything and life would really hard gfor them and the child. They can keep but it would be dispressing.
Because the baby is a single human, just sheltered by the mother.
Then the mother can be more wise about having sex.
I do. I care for the countless babies that are ground up every year. For the babies who are poisoned and shrivel up.
That it does, but there are always consequences when you make wrong choices.
There are many ways to escape this (excluding abortion).
Because I care for other people’s lives?
I agree with A Christian. Murdering a baby isn’t justifiable, disorder or not. If we just killed all the people with disorders, maybe we would be able to make a pure race. Sound familiar?
I guess this is where moral’s come into play, but for me morals are not really an issue. Why do you care about other human beings? Honestly, answer this question. What exactly is in it for you? I’ll tell you. The only reason people say they care about others is just so they can feel good about themselves and feel like they are above people who don’t care about others. The people who say the care about others and condescend to those people and say they have poor morals. This is the only reason people care about others (if they in fact do). Now I am going to get some complaints about this and have people say that’s not true, but it is. All the people who disagree with that are lying to themselves. You’re born to live, and to make something out of life, and the best way to do this is to feel good about who you are. Now whether or not what makes you feel good as a person is dependent on one’s “morals,” and society chooses which morals are correct and which aren’t.
Also it’s not like there aren’t any upsides to abortion. Not only does it relieve stress from the said person, it can aid in the research of the usage of stem cells. Did you know they are finding ways to cure blindness through stem cells? That’s pretty cool huh? It’s a pretty cool concept, the idea of being able to cure things that were never before thought to be possible. And you want to slow this process down just because you want a fetus to fully develop everytime, even if it could ruin the life of that person? To me that’s being selfish since you’re only saying this to satisfy yourself of feeling morally sound.
To wrap up what I said: throw your morals out the window because you only have these for your own selfish needs. Everyone does, no one is in a special category. I’ll even go as far as to say Jesus himself had selfish motivations to do what he did (fame, followers, power etc.) And again abortion has benefits, it can help change the medical world, which is a benefit for all human beings.
Unfortunately that is many times true, but not always.
Really only till recently. All morals came from God at first, but society is slowly changing them.
That would be adult stem cells. Embryonic stem cells have cured nothing. Adult stem cells have cured over 100 (last time I checked) diseases and disabilities.
Ruin the life of the fetus you mean? Really we aren’t slowing down anything, but wasted money.
Listen to yourself. You are defending most people, but singling out others, and you call me selfish. But I do admit, I am selfish at times.
The most selfish thing you can do, is throw God’s morals out, to make room for your own.
It was all for the glory of God. Notice when He did miracles, He prayed to and thanked God for the help. He never raised Himself.
Change the medical world how? Embryonic stem cell research is a joke.
Embryonic stem cells =/= fetal stem cells last time I checked. Fetal stem cells are more closely categorized under adult stem cells. Also I clearly don’t believe in God, so don’t bring up God’s morals.
“The most selfish thing you can do, is throw God’s morals out, to make room for your own.”
How do you know what God’s morals are? He can tell you what to do, but how do you know these are his morals? He allows a lot of people die each day so how would you define his morals? Pretty complex isn’t it?
You know the real reason abortion NEEDS to be legal? It’s a moral issue at heart. You see once upon a time it WAS illegal. But you know what? Women got them anyways. And the results were something like 100% infant mortality/ 38% patient mortality/ 45% inadvertent sterelisation. These figures don’t include the patience that died from infection as a result of unsteril procedures. Now the number of abortions that occurred during this period was not less than the number now.
So. We can kill more women or we can have clean clinics with trained pros doin’ the job. Look I hate the idea of killing an unborn. I detest it and would never consider advocating it. But outlawing it means it goes back to the back alleys and coathangers. It won’t stop it from happening, it will only change the number who die, and it will increase. Look it up.
You can argue right or wrong till your blue in the face but to a scared 17yr old from the ghetto it’s not always a matter of right, it’s a matter of right now and she can’t deal. Or the rich kid whose daddy has a reputation to uphold and his 15yr old can’t be pregnant or it will ruin everything. It aint right… but it is gonna happen. Better it be in a clinic than a garage.
Bj
Bible.
Self gain over life. Sick.
Welcome to the real world kid. IT is sick, and tragic. But to go back to the backally abortions just means more will die. The same number of babys will die and your solution is to insure more women die too?Tell me, what punishment would you give mothers who have abortions? It’s murder right, so do we try them under the death penalty? Life in prison? Whats a fair punishment for the afore mentioned 17yr old from the ghetto? How long would you put these women in jail for if you were the Judge and Jury?
Oh and safe skies and hot jets kid. I hope you have fun where ever you’re goin this week.
Bj
“We can kill more women or we can have clean clinics with trained pros doin’ the job.”
While abortion has been legalized, close to nothing has passed to standardize the cleanliness of abortion clinics. While praying in front of my local abortion clinic, my sister witnessed a plumber leave the facility and immediately “toss his cookies” into the nearest bush. Upon asking what he saw, he told the group that he had to unclog a sink because a fetus had been shoved down the disposal. There is still nothing clean or respectful about the process, only now they cut ‘em up before they pull ‘em out with. Fact is, more women do it now than when it was illegal.
“The only reason people say they care about others is just so they can feel good about themselves and feel like they are above people who don’t care about others.”
Lets say everyone did it for this; no exceptions. Fact is: people would still be helped, whether it helped the receiver and made the giver feel good makes no difference.
You need to look up your statistics Chris. No more abortions happen now then in the 30’s when it was illegal “per capita”. Meaning the percentages are the same. Only the deaths of the women has gone down, not the fetal mortality rate. No one can defend the act itself. It is tragic. But prohibition won’t fix it.
Let me ask you sir, what would you do to punish a woman who had one? Whats the fair punishment for the “crime” of not wishing to bare a child? How long should a woman suffer in prison because she decided to abort? Should she be put to death? An eye for an eye? You want it illegal, what is the correct penalty? Should she be shot like Doctor Tiller? Should she get the hard 40 like most murderers in my state? Would the world be better off if the 9yr old in Brazil who was molested by her step father had died in child birth as her Doctors believed she would? And what should her punishment be? She killed her unborn child. You consider it a crime. What should her punishment be? I here all the time from xtians how this must be stopped. But I’ve yet to get one who can answer this simple question. If it’s a crime, What is the proper punishment for the mother?
Bj
“…the percentages are the same.”
Can I see a source?
“…9yr old in Brazil…”
Such an incredibly small amount of cases are so sorrowful, but even still, abortion isn’t helping the situation at all. As for the punishment, why not give them prison time? I, like most Christians, don’t believe in the death sentence; everyone deserves a chance to repent and find Christ, so we shouldn’t kill them prematurely. But yeah, what’s so awful about putting a killer in prison?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21255186/
readem and weep.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1883598,00.html
Cleaner clinics, more regulation and supervision, better counciling, and most of all compasion are the moral solutions to the problem.
You would see that 9yr old die or in prison. Is that really what you want? Is that what your god calls you to. I think if you look at it you will see that your forgeting the love part of your saviors message.
Abortions will happen, just as prohibition did not stop drinking or drug use or gun ownership it won’t stop abortion. The choice we have is to minamise the damage or to expand it. You really want to expand it? I don’t think you do. I think you are as heartbroken as I about the children that never were. But to punish and cause suffering beyond what already is. No ….you can’t mean that…..can you?
Bj
Making this illegal seems like a huge waste of money for something that is on a moral level. If you believe a fetus isn’t truly human, then this isn’t really murder, and I doubt you’ll convince these people by throwing lame bible exerts and quotes from miscellaneous people. Like I said there are bigger problems in the world than this, and I don’t even see abortion as a problem, it seems perfectly reasonable to me, even if the reason is “I just don’t want a baby.”
It is, indeed, an Atheist v. Religious issue, but consider this; after the first three months of pregnancy the fetus’ nerve center appears. Would you say after this point it is human, since it now has the ability to sense and think?
Possibly, but don’t abortions get done before that?
How about you consider this. Would you say humans are inherently good? That they will, at the conscience level, always do the right thing (of course there are exceptions). I believe so, and I bet you do as well. With this is mind, don’t you think that as a society that has legalized abortion, that we are doing the “right,” thing? If you look at the majority of laws today, they all are pretty straight forward and help protect the people from wrong things in the world. I am pretty much saying that if the majority of the public deems this as an alright thing to do, and if humans are inherently good, then abortion is not bad.
Also stop dissecting my posts and responding to points you only want to answer. For instance when I pointed out that embryonic stem cells =/= fetal stem cells, and that the bible doesn’t clearly point out what God’s morals are.
Let’s just pretend there is no God or Jesus or spongebob. If a women gets preg she should have a choice. There are many possible health complications that can occur from getting preg. Face it, not everyone is going to say no to abortion. And even if this ridiculous idea gets to the higher ups of the government and they make a law, this is still the real world. People will complain and won’t follow the law.
Just curious, but why is my june 21st comment still awaiting moderation when I’ve been able to post on other topics here since then with no moderation? I simply provided the links to the information AChristian asked for and reiterated my point that prohibition won’t stop the practice and punishment to the unfortunates who seek, for whatever reasons, this procedure are as great an evil as the act? If my language is to strong (there are no swear words and I do not insult anyone) Then please inform me. I will re think my submition. But please do not exclude me from the debate. I believe the question of punishment is integral to the legality we would impose on the act. And the question of punishing a raped 9 yr old is something that can not be overlooked. These things happen, more often than anyone would like. They can not be discarded when we discuss this issue.
Humbly yours,
Bj
“Possibly, but don’t abortions get done before that?”
Yes, but abortions also get performed mere days before the baby is due. While most of my atheist friends agree with birth control and early on contraception, many of those friends disagree with abortion past that point, which I think makes a certain degree of sense.
“…then abortion is not bad.”
Well, as you said yourself, there are exceptions.
“Also stop dissecting my posts and responding to points you only want to answer.”
Sorry if some points were dismissed; I’m not familiar with the terminology regarding stem cells. As for the Bible statement, I can see how it seems unclear regarding God’s morals.
Blue Jester, I’m not wise enough to make a decision in such a case. I’m not the one that should be asked.
Yes indeed there are exceptions, but abortion is not one of them.
My time here is over, that is all I wanted to say.
I’m just going to assume it’s the links to the articles that are triggering the mod code. Lets see shall we.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21255186/
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1883598,00.html
the links are clean and simply illustrate my previous points.
Bj
Ahh… I figured it out. It’s the links I submitted that triggered the auto mod code. Unfortunate as I do back up my assertions with fact. We will simply have to await young master Garret’s return to continue. I would like to add the level of debate on this modest little site is rather high and quite civil which I find refreshing. Kudos to young Garret for keeping the discourse at such levels. It is far to often emotions about belief and morals override true open debate of Idea’s and indeed Ideals.
No one can argue that late term abortions are not tragic. But let me ask you this. What do you recall from your time in the womb? I’ve heard it said numerous times how the baby can feel after 3 months. But if the feeling is fleeting, if there is no lasting memory, is it real. Can any of us remember our first year? Our fist birthday? Our first word? My most distant memory is around the time I was four or five. I’m not saying life doesn’t begin until then. I’m saying the memory formation in our brains, the part that makes up our experiences and personalitys, indeed our humanity, do not occur until long after the womb. In a world where the richest nation still leaves it’s poor to suffer and struggle, unable to access healthcare or education, let alone food and shelter, is sparring a child from the inevitable struggle not “as” important as compationately working to right those wrongs. Let’s fix the reasons abortion is so prevalent first. Bet it goes away then. Nations with strong full access health and child care don’t have as many abortions per capita. (I would provide proof here but don’t want mod boted)
I stand by my assertion that prohibition is wrong. In all cases it seeks to solve the simptom, and ignores the root cause. And that cause in not a lack of faith, it is a clear unobstructed veiw of the reality that the child will be faced with, or sparred from. Adoption is a fine thing. But it’s also rare for minority children. Far to many are raised by the state or placed in foster care in terrible conditions.
Garunty a child will have a good life with or without it’s mother and abortions will go down. Which is what everyone wants. Some are not ready, and indeed some expectant mothers will never be good mothers. I believe that sparring a child a tragic life far surpasses the “good” of condemning a child to it. But I’m loath to encourage abortion. I find it very tragic. And I’m sure those faced with the choice feel the same way. If they don’t, then they would not be a good candidate for motherhood anyways. We all long for a perfect world. But you have to fix whats really broke before you can clean up the mess.
Bj
As far as your “memory” argument goes, I’m not at all persuaded; however, you’re absolutely right about having to kill the root cause. I suppose only time can solve the issue, if the “root cause” is ever fixed.
Perhaps I could elaborate. You felt pain when you were being born. Squeesed out of the womb in fury and agony you entered this world. Did it impact your personality? The first time you fell down and scrapped your knee, bruised your elbow, got spanked. Do you remember it? Most don’t. Personality is formed in adolesance starting around 2 yrs and on from there. Neuro activity for a fetus in the 3rd trimester is fully active, but, the part of the brain that forms memory is not. It’s almost as if each second is it’s own world with no past or future. I fact it’s exactly like that. This isn’t saying there is no pain, but there is no referance between pain and pleasure. Both are the same at this point. Strong and instinctual. Fight or flight response applys to both at this stage. Heat, cold, pain, fear, tickles, noises, jolts, bright lights, all resolve in the same reactions to lesser or greater extants.
My point is the fallacy of the agoney inflicted on a late term abortion is just that. A fallacy, the agoney of birth is as traumatic from a neuro standpoint. Just not, admitedly from a moral stand point. I stand by my opposition for prohibition. It can be and is sometimes the best thing for the fetus and the mother to not bring the child to term. That does not, in my mind make it the best outcome possible under ideal conditions. But we don’t and have never had those.
Sadly, that is reality. Compasion first, understanding follows, then a salution can be found. Prohibition never. It solves nothing.
Bj
how can you say things like this?! so your saying just because it cannot be remebred by the baby its ok?! thats like torturing someone then brainwashing them into thinking it never happened.. is THAT ok?? i highly doubt you will agree with that.. and if you are you must be one cold=-hearted person!!!!
I’m saying that if a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it, it matters not that it made a sound. Would you adopt a black crack baby? If you would then please do as there are plenty out there who can’t get adopted. You want a brite clean happy world where we all care for each other and take care of each other. Me too, the difference is I have to live in and raise a family in the world we got. And it is not the one you wish it were. I have children, I wouldn’t have given them up for the world, but I know people who shouldn’t be raising a dog let alone children. And I think, the child may have been better off sent home to his maker (if there is one) before the pain and torment and suffering of their lives began.
Bj
Yeah prohibition never solves anything and the rights and whims of the parents should override the child, so hey, let’s legalise child molestation, child rape, child beating and child psychological abuse (oh wait we more or less already have). Or here’s a thought, how about we just expect parents to step up to the plate and put their kids first no matter what- even if it costs that parents their lives!
Just noticed my previous posts are back up with links intact. Thank you Garret. And Safe skies young master. May your days be long and educational (in a good way)
Bj
I suppose that is true, but is it okay to kill a one year old? After all, it’s personality isn’t near being developed, and it won’t remember anything anyway.
To number 9 – yep those things do happen… In dark scary alleyways… Cause they are illegal
in my eyes,
you guys who are judging other people are not any better than the abortioners.
who are you to decide what is right and what is wrong, you are not the lord.
all i am saying is dont judge sinners if you are a sinner yourself.
unless you are 100% perfect, you do not have the right to tell others what and what not to do.
Does anyone else find this statement ironic?
so by your reasoning not only should we allow abortion but seeing as how we are all sinners and we should allow these sins to go unpunished we should also allow murder, rape, and theft.
You are absolutely correct when you imply that noone is perfect and that we all sin but are you suggesting that we should give in to sin and pile on more of it? The answere to that is a resounding no, although we all sin we should strive to live sin free (eventhough we will inevitbly fail)
I LOVE this website!! awsome arguments agaist abortion! i agree with everything said here! abortion is sick, its murder and should definetly be banned from out country!!there are millions of women out there logning for children and people just throw away lives of innocent adorable babies!! it makes me sick!!!!
Hi!
Excellent post and I agree with you 100%. I argue the point that abortion is merely murder in the womb in this post on my blog: http://childoftheocean.wordpress.com/2010/01/22/unborn-abortion/
You’re welcome to check it out.
Kind regards.